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linchi
Joined: 03 Jul 2009 Posts: 343

Posted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 2:01 pm Post subject: Stuttering 


Stuttering
Tongue (according to chinese medicine) : Mars
Speak : Mercury
Stop, paralysis, pause, standstill : Admetos
Admetos is a hypothetical planet named by Friedrich Sieggrün , which he found astrologically with the technique developed by Alfred Witte (symmetry, half sums, planetary pictures) on 19.8.1927, 2:30 CET, Hamburg.
Used :
1Sidereal zodiac (Krishnamurti Ayanamsa), Mean Node.
23°45'56" for Year 2000. Speed of precession is 50.2388475.
2 Harmonic 16, 64 and 256
3 Astrology Software
Nova Chartwheels (alabe.com)
Examples :
Bazin, André
Carroll, Lewis
Churchill, Winston
Curtis, Kelly
George VI, King of the United Kingdom
Gorman, Amanda
Hansen, Robert
Heck, Dieter Thomas
Jenkins, Jackie
Jones, James Earl
Lehman, Lee
Lewis, Jim
Lipton, Peggy
Monroe, Marilyn
Paulhan, Frédéric
Rodden, Lois M.
Scatman John
Sirois, Leon
Stossel, John
Updike, John
Vries, Anne de
Welch, Jack
Research : Widow
Willis, Bruce
https://ia601408.us.archive.org/26/items/stuttering_202108/Stuttering.pdf _________________ http://cemalcicek.com 

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Therese Hamilton
Joined: 22 Feb 2011 Posts: 1763 Location: California, USA

Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 5:05 pm Post subject: 


Thank you for this research, Linchi. A perfect correlation and very straightforward. If only all astrological research followed a clear and specific process and pattern, how wise we would all be when we wanted to make a prediction! _________________ http://www.snowcrest.net/sunrise/LostZodiac.htm 

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Ouranos
Joined: 28 Mar 2020 Posts: 516

Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 6:46 pm Post subject: 


Very interesting Linchi,
Do you see any difference between the Harmonics 16, 64 or 256?
Or they are all part of the same family.
Thank you,
Ouranos _________________ Blessings! 

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linchi
Joined: 03 Jul 2009 Posts: 343

Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 7:47 pm Post subject: 


Therese Hamilton wrote:  Thank you for this research, Linchi. A perfect correlation and very straightforward. If only all astrological research followed a clear and specific process and pattern, how wise we would all be when we wanted to make a prediction! 
You're welcome, Therese.
It depends with which astrological system and/or techniques the researches are performed. Some astrrological systems and techniques have brought nothing, as we know. There are more researches needed, where still many unknows. But before that, we must admit that there is much we do not know. But as we know, all astrological schools believe that they already know everything. _________________ http://cemalcicek.com 

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linchi
Joined: 03 Jul 2009 Posts: 343

Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 7:50 pm Post subject: 


Ouranos wrote:  Very interesting Linchi,
Do you see any difference between the Harmonics 16, 64 or 256?
Or they are all part of the same family.
Thank you,
Ouranos 
You're welcome Ouranos.
Between the harmonics I use, depending on the exactness of the birth time (2,4,8,16,32,64,..................,65536) , there is no difference. Because all harmonic points in the circle are not marked, I use different harmonics 16,64,256 and so on, so that I can see more harmonic points.
The circle is divided to two until it is no longer divisible. I mostly use up to harmonic 4096 if the birth time is accurate to the minute. If the birth time is not controlled by me, I use up to harmonic 256. _________________ http://cemalcicek.com 

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Ouranos
Joined: 28 Mar 2020 Posts: 516

Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:01 pm Post subject: 


Thank you Linchi,
I would need your expert opinion on a matter that has been lingering in my mind for quite some time.
When you work with midpoints, the dividend is the sum of 2 natal points (planets, angles or other Uranian points selected).
The divisor is always from the family of hard aspects (2,4,8,16,32 and so on)
Now say that the angle separating 2 points is a 6th Harmonic (a sextile). If you divide it by 4, you get 1/24 of the circle. You are still not in the family of the hard aspect. Or do you by the divisor?
As opposed to a square between 2 points, you stay in the same square family.
Wouldn't it make sense to look at the Angular distance between 2 points to choose the divisor?
My question is What is the importance of the dividend and the divisor in the formula?
Thank you,
Ouranos _________________ Blessings! 

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linchi
Joined: 03 Jul 2009 Posts: 343

Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2021 7:10 am Post subject: 


Hi Ouranos,
Ouranos wrote: 
Now say that the angle separating 2 points is a 6th Harmonic (a sextile). If you divide it by 4, you get 1/24 of the circle. You are still not in the family of the hard aspect. Or do you by the divisor?

It is about midpoints, that is the point that is exactly midway between two other points. Because we are working with a circle (360°) the midpoint between 0° and 360° is the 180° and between 0° and 180° is the 90° and so on. With two planets it is the same, that is we take the center point. But not the point which is in sextile position to a planet. But if you take a sextile (harmonic 6) at the beginning, first of all there is no midpoint, secondly you have to take another sextile (6x6), that means harmonic 36. But if you take harmonic 24 (4x6), it is no longer logical.
Thirdly, you must finally research whether the socalled sextile aspect exists at all.
Fourth, and the most important, is to bring enough examples to prove the theory. And compare with other harmonics. Which is more precise ? It is a matter of precision. Otherwise with some orb you can always prove everything.
Here I have prepared a few examples for the Hamburg School astrologers, how to compare the harmonics to find out which harmonic is the right one.
Comparison Of Harmonic 256 With Harmonic 192
https://ia801709.us.archive.org/13/items/comparisonofharmonic256withharmonic192/Comparison%20of%20Harmonic%20256%20with%20Harmonic%20192.pdf
Ernst Esch, a Hamburg school astrologer in the 1940s, would have worked with harmonics 64,128 and 256 as well as 24,48 and 96. He would have divided the circle first to 12 then multuplicated with two. As far as I know, only two examples of his work are published. For some who think and believe that the Hamburg school belongs to them, these two examples are more convincing than my works with over thousands of examples. _________________ http://cemalcicek.com 

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Ouranos
Joined: 28 Mar 2020 Posts: 516

Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2021 10:58 am Post subject: 


Hello Linchi,
When you say 'midpoints', that says it all. Otherwise, it would be called a tripoint or a sixpoint....
It's about the equidistant point between 2 points, whether it is a sextile or a square. And your sequence (2,4,8,16,32,64,...65536) follows the same logic.
Another question: What is your take on direct vs indirect midpoints?
Another question: Why sidereal over tropical? What about the Aries point?
And another question: Have you done any experiment with the Fibonacci sequence (0,1,1,2,3,5,8,13,21,34,55,89,144...)
And what orb for a midpoint to be activated?
I appreciate you taking the time to answer my questions with all your handson research you have done.
Blessings,
Ouranos _________________ Blessings! 

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linchi
Joined: 03 Jul 2009 Posts: 343

Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2021 4:35 pm Post subject: 


Hi Ouranos,
Ouranos wrote: 
Another question: What is your take on direct vs indirect midpoints? 
There is no difference between direct and indirect midpoints. if anyone claims otherwise, let them show me examples.
Quote:  Another question: Why sidereal over tropical? What about the Aries point? 
Because the tropical does not work with my system. About 17 years ago when I started microastrology, I used tropical zodiac. But soon I found out that tropical zodiac did not work with the sunequations, which is very important for birth time correction. I use sidereal zodiac not because of theoretical considerations but because of practical examples.
I don't use Aries point so often, if I do, then with lower harmonics e.g. up to harmonic 256. If the real Aries point should be a few minutes earlier or later, it doesn't change anything.
Quote:  And another question: Have you done any experiment with the Fibonacci sequence (0,1,1,2,3,5,8,13,21,34,55,89,144...) 
No
Quote:  And what orb for a midpoint to be activated? 
For harmonic 16 : 10 minutes
For harmonic 64 : 4 minutes
For harmonic 256 : 30 seconds
For harmonic 4096 : 2 seconds
I am always pleased when someone shows interest and asks questions. I am glad to answer the questions that should arise. _________________ http://cemalcicek.com 

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Ouranos
Joined: 28 Mar 2020 Posts: 516

Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2021 2:46 am Post subject: 


Long time ago, I took a Cosmobiology course with an old German lady who lived in my city, Ms Inge Aach. From what I can remember I think she had studied with Ebertin but anyway, she gave me the passion for midpoints.
You say For Harmonic 16  10 minutes of orb and For Harmonic 64  4 minutes.
I totally agree with you.
But having worked with Lady Luck on gambling, I even prefer 5 minutes orb for lesser harmonics as the prize increases when it is closer.
I would qualify it like: 10 min  Give it a try, the columns of the temple are starting to be shaken. 5 min  You're in baby! Exact  Go for it!
Now here comes a few other questions for you Linchi.
I ran through many pdf files you have on your website and found many interesting ones worthy to be published especially when you draw conclusions on planetary pictures.
** What is the best book or website you would recommend to get an overall picture of all possible planetary pictures?
** I see you are using a lot of Triple pattern combining the Natal with SA and Lunation cycle. From my understanding, you use Quarter Moons for about 7 days and then you would switch to the next one. Is that correct?
** Ruth Brummund says looking at MA/SA and SU/JU that "Here we deal with Saturn with Mars as death indicators, and Jupiter with Sun as symbolizing the successful man.
"There are 15 possible midpoint combinations involving the 3 midpoints (radix, directed, and transiting), plus 15 additional combinations when using sums."
How do you make sense of all these midpoints not to be overloaded with information? And does one midpoint cancel out another midpoint?
** Have you done any study on lucky winners and potential midpoint combinations?
I hope I am not extending the original intent of your post,
Thank you,
Ouranos _________________ Blessings! 

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linchi
Joined: 03 Jul 2009 Posts: 343

Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2021 1:14 pm Post subject: 


Hi Ouranos,
Ouranos wrote: 
** What is the best book or website you would recommend to get an overall picture of all possible planetary pictures? 
I would recommend this book to you.
Rules for Planetary Pictures
https://witteverlag.com/booksinternational/booksenglish/48rulesforplanetarypictures.html
https://witteverlag.com/internationalbooks/francais/76manueldureglesplanetaires.html
Quote:  ** I see you are using a lot of Triple pattern combining the Natal with SA and Lunation cycle. 
No, that is not correct. First, I don't use the Solar Arcs. Secondly, when I use different progressions and/or solarlunar , I don't combine them. You don't need to combine them to find anything either. Because each transit,progression and returns must show event itself when compared to natal.
Quote:  From my understanding, you use Quarter Moons for about 7 days and then you would switch to the next one. Is that correct? 
It is correct.
Quote:  ** Ruth Brummund says looking at MA/SA and SU/JU that "Here we deal with Saturn with Mars as death indicators, and Jupiter with Sun as symbolizing the successful man. 
You can't assign a planetary picture to just one event. MA/SA or SU/JU can also have meanings other than death or successful man depending on event or circumstances. It is a mistake anyway to interpret Saturn always negative and Jupiter always positive.
Quote:  "There are 15 possible midpoint combinations involving the 3 midpoints (radix, directed, and transiting), plus 15 additional combinations when using sums."
How do you make sense of all these midpoints not to be overloaded with information? 
This criticism applies to the Hamburg School, but not to my system. My system is a bit different from Hamburg School astrology.
1 I do not combine the progressions, directions and returns. I only compare e.g.
SolarNatal
LunarNatal
ProgressionNatal
TransitNatal and so on.
But not TransitProgressionDirection
I do so :
Example :
Solar MA/SA = r SU
How hamburg school proceeds could look like this :
tMA/dSA = r SU or pMA/tSA = r SU
2 I do not use the sums and differences.
In my system I search only one planetary picture, which is firmly assigned for a certain event. In my system I search only one planetary picture, which is firmly assigned for a certain event. Therefore, overloaded information is not possible.
When someone who is going to the doctor for a cancer checkup asks me if he has cancer, I look at either transit or solar and look for these planetary pictures
e.g. solar
solar NE/PL = r SU ?
solar NE/PL = r NE/PL ?
solar NE/PL = r MA/SA ?
solar MA/SA = r NE/PL ?
I do not only examine harmonic 16 but 64,256 and if the birth time is correct to the minute harmonic 4096.
As you can see here, you do not get overloaded information.
Quote:  And does one midpoint cancel out another midpoint? 
No midpoint can cancel other midpoints. Instead, a midpoint can make other midpoints worse or prevent that from being as bad.
Quote:  ** Have you done any study on lucky winners and potential midpoint combinations? 
This theme and games do not interest me, the topics that have to do with the money.
Here are some examples in german language :
https://astrologiewslforum.astrax.de/search.php?keywords=Lotto&sid=47cf89255382bcc21ccf786d83aa5ad9
Quote:  I hope I am not extending the original intent of your post, 
I have no intention when I post anything. Therefore any question welcome. _________________ http://cemalcicek.com 

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Ouranos
Joined: 28 Mar 2020 Posts: 516

Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2021 12:36 am Post subject: 


Hello Linchi,
**When I asked you about the orb you use, I meant Solar, Lunar Return or any transiting involved compared to the natal chart.
What about the natal chart? What orb do you use to determine a planetary picture. Same orb?
**In your paper Comparing Harmonic 256 and 192
Father's death of Caroline of Monaco, Solar Return  you find many occurences with 256 but none with 192.
How do you decide which one is correct? I am playing devil's advocate here.
You say that you search for a planetary picture, which to me is a great step ahead of any other systems. But what if you find it only in 256 and not in the others?
** Is there a reason you do not use Solar Arc?
And thank you for the link to the book of Witte. Amazon is not in the race.
For the link to the German Forum, can I post in English?
Ouranos _________________ Blessings! 

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linchi
Joined: 03 Jul 2009 Posts: 343

Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2021 5:32 am Post subject: 


Hi Ouranos,
Ouranos wrote: 
**When I asked you about the orb you use, I meant Solar, Lunar Return or any transiting involved compared to the natal chart.
What about the natal chart? What orb do you use to determine a planetary picture. Same orb? 
Yes, same orb.
Quote:  **In your paper Comparing Harmonic 256 and 192
Father's death of Caroline of Monaco, Solar Return  you find many occurences with 256 but none with 192.
How do you decide which one is correct? I am playing devil's advocate here.
You say that you search for a planetary picture, which to me is a great step ahead of any other systems. But what if you find it only in 256 and not in the others? 
I do not decide which harmonic is correct. The planetary picture we are looking for, can be in harmonic 16,64,256 or, if the birth time is correct to the minute, in harmonic 4096. It is because of the software, because harmonic points of 64 or 256 are not marked in harmonic 16. Therefore, we examine harmonic 16,64,256 and 4096 to see if the person has the planetary picture we are looking for.
The planetary picture we are looking for does not have to be found in all harmonics. If the planetary picture was present in all harmonics, we would not need to examine all harmonics. All harmonics have the equal significance. One is not better or more important than others.
Quote:  ** Is there a reason you do not use Solar Arc? 
First, I do not like the directions. Second, I use more than enough progressions, transit,returns, moon phases and so on. I don't think I need solar arc too. Third, zet astrology software does not calculate the solar arcs with sidereal zodiac.
Quote:  For the link to the German Forum, can I post in English? 
I have nothing to do with the forum, you should better ask the forum owner. _________________ http://cemalcicek.com 

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Ouranos
Joined: 28 Mar 2020 Posts: 516

Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2021 8:32 am Post subject: 


Really appreciate all the information you provide on your method.
Quote:  The planetary picture we are looking for, can be in harmonic 16,64,256 or, if the birth time is correct to the minute, in harmonic 4096. 
What about harmonic 4 and 8? Do you find a lot of discrepancy when moving to 32 and greater?
Quote:  Sidereal zodiac (Krishnamurti Ayanamsa), Mean Node.
23°45'56" for Year 2000. Speed of precession is 50.2388475. 
Does the software you use do the precession correction? For example Lewis Carroll born in 1832 is far off from the Krishnamurti Ayanamsa for Year 2000
Znet vs Nova Wheels  Pros and cons?
I have Solar Fire 9.0. Is it reliable enough to reproduce your method?
My mother died of a liver cancer June 8, 1992 at 17h(EDT) in TroisFivieres, Quebec, Canada 46N21 72W33
She was born Dec 15, 1929 Unknown birth time (EST) in StMichel du Squatech 47N53 68W43
I always thought that she was a Mercurian sign (Gemini or Virgo) by her character and the interests she had in her life. In her later years, she owned an hotel and did the administration of it (Mercury conjunct Saturn in Cap).
6 months before she died, my brother and I put her in an endoflife care.
I followed the transiting Mars/Saturn midpoint and saw that it would go over her approximate Sun during the 2nd week of June. Combined with the Sun transiting opposite her natal Sun in Sagittarius, squares and opposition months being a general lack of vitality for anyone. Plus she was a FM birth.
So I moved to the city where she was 1 week before she died to be by her side. I held her hand when she passed away The midpoint Mars/Saturn had just entered a 1 degree orb to her natal Sun.
Do you think that by knowing her time of death it would be possible to find her time of birth? If so, what planetary picture involving the ASC would you look at?
Thank you,
Ouranos _________________ Blessings! 

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Ouranos
Joined: 28 Mar 2020 Posts: 516

Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2021 1:24 pm Post subject: 


Correction on her birth date _________________ Blessings! 

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